Comments on: The Death of Courtship in Contemporary YA Lit http://www.jdmontague.com/ya-lit-killed-courtship.html The blog of writerly things...and other deliberate nonesense. Sat, 28 Jan 2012 02:36:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: aravind http://www.jdmontague.com/ya-lit-killed-courtship.html#comment-173 aravind Mon, 23 May 2011 21:12:14 +0000 http://www.jdmontague.com/ya-lit-killed-courtship.html#comment-173 This post made me think of this difference- Ella Enchanted (the book, published in 1997): protagonist and love interest fall in love over the course of years. They originally are friends, he develops a crush, she eventually does too, then the plot has to be overcome for them to get together, literally a decade or so after they first meet. Ella Enchanted (the movie, made in 2004): protagonist and love interest fall in love over three days, the first three days after they met of course. This isn't just a new trope. It's one that's hit hard and fast. This post made me think of this difference-

Ella Enchanted (the book, published in 1997): protagonist and love interest fall in love over the course of years. They originally are friends, he develops a crush, she eventually does too, then the plot has to be overcome for them to get together, literally a decade or so after they first meet.

Ella Enchanted (the movie, made in 2004): protagonist and love interest fall in love over three days, the first three days after they met of course.

This isn’t just a new trope. It’s one that’s hit hard and fast.

]]> By: Jetso (the Chronicler) http://www.jdmontague.com/ya-lit-killed-courtship.html#comment-166 Jetso (the Chronicler) Sat, 14 May 2011 05:31:08 +0000 http://www.jdmontague.com/ya-lit-killed-courtship.html#comment-166 I actually find the "dating" model pedaled by romcoms quite limiting when it comes to reflecting how relationships around me (and mine) have formed. There's often a long period of dancing around the issue, growing affection and "hanging out." Structured dates that involve food and movie and such feature much less prominently. But that is not to say the above isn't courtship. It very much is, this mutual period dancing around each other. I've noticed a similar trend in romance novels and I think the issue is twofold: 1) it's simply easy to write. Instant love/lust, and in the case of romance novels, instant boners, is easy enough to write. A more gradual period of growing affection and slow relisation is much harder. 2) it's shorter. Thus allowing for more time for the plot andor obstacles to come tear the couple apart. The author is often interested in the torments of that forbidden love and the consequences ("I love him so much! But why him?!") rather than examining the relationship itself. They want to skip to the bit where the love defies death and demons, and the longer it lingers in an examination of the relationship itself, the more likely it is that the flaws of it may become evident. Take Bella and Edward. Though above you state much of their "courtship", Bella actually confesses herself willing to die for Edward before most of it occurs. 3) the romance of certainy and lack of choice. I think this in part stems from a grass in greener thinking, but note the number of narratives about the apparently modern difficulties of finding Mr Right. The problems involve too much choice and a lack of certainty. "He's nice and all but is he The One?" I theorise that this mirrors the way medieval narratives are about choice (with a proactive lady who spies the knight, decides he is suitable and sends her damsel over to initiate courtship with rings and other presents). They are, to put it simplistically, exercising a choice that they don't have in real life. I'd argue this lack of courtship feeds into the greater themes of destiny and lifemates (etc) that are prominent in romance novels (as well as a certain romanticisation of arranged marriages and matchmaking friends). The underlying theme is certainty. They know from the first moment of love at first sight. Sorry for incoherence am typing this on a train. I actually find the “dating” model pedaled by romcoms quite limiting when it comes to reflecting how relationships around me (and mine) have formed. There’s often a long period of dancing around the issue, growing affection and “hanging out.” Structured dates that involve food and movie and such feature much less prominently.

But that is not to say the above isn’t courtship. It very much is, this mutual period dancing around each other.

I’ve noticed a similar trend in romance novels and I think the issue is twofold:

1) it’s simply easy to write. Instant love/lust, and in the case of romance novels, instant boners, is easy enough to write. A more gradual period of growing affection and slow relisation is much harder.

2) it’s shorter. Thus allowing for more time for the plot andor obstacles to come tear the couple apart. The author is often interested in the torments of that forbidden love and the consequences (“I love him so much! But why him?!”) rather than examining the relationship itself. They want to skip to the bit where the love defies death and demons, and the longer it lingers in an examination of the relationship itself, the more likely it is that the flaws of it may become evident.

Take Bella and Edward. Though above you state much of their “courtship”, Bella actually confesses herself willing to die for Edward before most of it occurs.

3) the romance of certainy and lack of choice. I think this in part stems from a grass in greener thinking, but note the number of narratives about the apparently modern difficulties of finding Mr Right. The problems involve too much choice and a lack of certainty. “He’s nice and all but is he The One?”

I theorise that this mirrors the way medieval narratives are about choice (with a proactive lady who spies the knight, decides he is suitable and sends her damsel over to initiate courtship with rings and other presents). They are, to put it simplistically, exercising a choice that they don’t have in real life.

I’d argue this lack of courtship feeds into the greater themes of destiny and lifemates (etc) that are prominent in romance novels (as well as a certain romanticisation of arranged marriages and matchmaking friends). The underlying theme is certainty. They know from the first moment of love at first sight.

Sorry for incoherence am typing this on a train.

]]> By: Karen Nilsen http://www.jdmontague.com/ya-lit-killed-courtship.html#comment-165 Karen Nilsen Fri, 13 May 2011 03:14:00 +0000 http://www.jdmontague.com/ya-lit-killed-courtship.html#comment-165 I'm flattered :) Since your initial post inspired my comments, feel free to use them as you see fit. I look forward to following your blog~ Karen I’m flattered :) Since your initial post inspired my comments, feel free to use them as you see fit. I look forward to following your blog~

Karen

]]> By: J. D. Montague http://www.jdmontague.com/ya-lit-killed-courtship.html#comment-164 J. D. Montague Thu, 12 May 2011 23:01:18 +0000 http://www.jdmontague.com/ya-lit-killed-courtship.html#comment-164 I think I understand what you meant the first time around, but I appreciate the clarification and I can see what you mean. Fear of dealing with the emotions that are dredged up is a legitimate concern, but I think the authors who consciously power through and use that energy add something visceral and touching to their writing. You have some insightful comments. Would you mind if I used them for a spin-off blog post? I think I understand what you meant the first time around, but I appreciate the clarification and I can see what you mean. Fear of dealing with the emotions that are dredged up is a legitimate concern, but I think the authors who consciously power through and use that energy add something visceral and touching to their writing.

You have some insightful comments. Would you mind if I used them for a spin-off blog post?

]]> By: Karen Nilsen http://www.jdmontague.com/ya-lit-killed-courtship.html#comment-163 Karen Nilsen Thu, 12 May 2011 13:11:36 +0000 http://www.jdmontague.com/ya-lit-killed-courtship.html#comment-163 Sorry--meant to add something, and I didn't manage it in the time allotted for editing. When I wrote that some authors may fear writing courtship/love scenes, I didn't clarify what I meant by fear. Courtship/love scenes, like scenes of intense conflict, provoke a lot of emotion and may stir up an author's personal issues; hence, the author may subconsciously dull such scenes down or avoid them altogether. Sorry–meant to add something, and I didn’t manage it in the time allotted for editing. When I wrote that some authors may fear writing courtship/love scenes, I didn’t clarify what I meant by fear. Courtship/love scenes, like scenes of intense conflict, provoke a lot of emotion and may stir up an author’s personal issues; hence, the author may subconsciously dull such scenes down or avoid them altogether.

]]> By: Karen Nilsen http://www.jdmontague.com/ya-lit-killed-courtship.html#comment-162 Karen Nilsen Thu, 12 May 2011 13:01:18 +0000 http://www.jdmontague.com/ya-lit-killed-courtship.html#comment-162 Thanks! My parents have been a major inspiration to me over the years. Although I agree it's lazy to skip such scenes, I think it may be fear rather than laziness on the part of some authors. It's difficult to make love/courtship scenes convincing because of all the strong emotions and subtleties of attraction involved--much easier to tell rather than show. Unfortunately, skipping these scenes leads to an unconvincing denouement--as a reader, I end up questioning character motivation if I don't understand the reasons why a character behaves as he or she does. And once I question character motivation, I end up questioning character development, and then the whole story is a loss for me. Thanks! My parents have been a major inspiration to me over the years.
Although I agree it’s lazy to skip such scenes, I think it may be fear rather than laziness on the part of some authors. It’s difficult to make love/courtship scenes convincing because of all the strong emotions and subtleties of attraction involved–much easier to tell rather than show. Unfortunately, skipping these scenes leads to an unconvincing denouement–as a reader, I end up questioning character motivation if I don’t understand the reasons why a character behaves as he or she does. And once I question character motivation, I end up questioning character development, and then the whole story is a loss for me.

]]> By: J. D. Montague http://www.jdmontague.com/ya-lit-killed-courtship.html#comment-161 J. D. Montague Thu, 12 May 2011 04:15:02 +0000 http://www.jdmontague.com/ya-lit-killed-courtship.html#comment-161 What a beautiful comment, Karen. And you're very right. I concede there is a bit of the unexplainable where love in concerned, but as an author, it should be explained (or at least shown) to the reader otherwise it's disingenuous. The length of time spent wooing each other doesn't so much matter--as evidenced by your parents--as long as the essence of the relationship is clearly translated. If it's true as you say that writers are tempted to avoid scenes showing why and how people fall in love because such scenes are difficult to write, to me that's just plain lazy. What a beautiful comment, Karen. And you’re very right. I concede there is a bit of the unexplainable where love in concerned, but as an author, it should be explained (or at least shown) to the reader otherwise it’s disingenuous. The length of time spent wooing each other doesn’t so much matter–as evidenced by your parents–as long as the essence of the relationship is clearly translated. If it’s true as you say that writers are tempted to avoid scenes showing why and how people fall in love because such scenes are difficult to write, to me that’s just plain lazy.

]]> By: Karen Nilsen http://www.jdmontague.com/ya-lit-killed-courtship.html#comment-160 Karen Nilsen Thu, 12 May 2011 03:26:00 +0000 http://www.jdmontague.com/ya-lit-killed-courtship.html#comment-160 Interesting observation. My parents met in a bar and married two months later and were happily married for 31 years before Mom passed away (Dad, a tough Merchant Marine, tenderly nursed Mom for the last two years of her life--it about broke my heart to see them together like that.) They knew relatively soon after they met that they were destined to be together--they were both very intuitive people and had enough life experience to know what they were looking for in a potential mate. I do believe from their experience and from my own dating experiences that a person can form an accurate intuition about a potential mate early on and perhaps base the feeling of "love at first sight" on that intuition. However, there has to be some interaction between the man and the woman first before this intuition, or psychic flash, can occur. There has to be a why and a how before true love can happen. I think that writers are tempted to avoid scenes showing why and how people fall in love because such scenes are difficult to write, and in our quick fix, instant gratification culture, the subtle cues and tender flirting leading up to the big moment are seen as boring, when really they're necessary to give the big moment its bang. Books where the characters fall in love instantly for no discernible reason remind me of those silly action movies where things blow up for no reason aside from the adrenaline rush. Interesting observation. My parents met in a bar and married two months later and were happily married for 31 years before Mom passed away (Dad, a tough Merchant Marine, tenderly nursed Mom for the last two years of her life–it about broke my heart to see them together like that.) They knew relatively soon after they met that they were destined to be together–they were both very intuitive people and had enough life experience to know what they were looking for in a potential mate. I do believe from their experience and from my own dating experiences that a person can form an accurate intuition about a potential mate early on and perhaps base the feeling of “love at first sight” on that intuition. However, there has to be some interaction between the man and the woman first before this intuition, or psychic flash, can occur. There has to be a why and a how before true love can happen. I think that writers are tempted to avoid scenes showing why and how people fall in love because such scenes are difficult to write, and in our quick fix, instant gratification culture, the subtle cues and tender flirting leading up to the big moment are seen as boring, when really they’re necessary to give the big moment its bang. Books where the characters fall in love instantly for no discernible reason remind me of those silly action movies where things blow up for no reason aside from the adrenaline rush.

]]> By: J. D. Montague http://www.jdmontague.com/ya-lit-killed-courtship.html#comment-159 J. D. Montague Wed, 11 May 2011 18:43:57 +0000 http://www.jdmontague.com/ya-lit-killed-courtship.html#comment-159 Hi Penelope, Thanks for stopping by. :D By sharing the personal story of you and your fiancé, I think you may have bolstered my point without intending to. By your own admission, when <em>you</em> first met him, you thought he was a brute...so no instant romance there. ;) "[H]e’d known about me for many months before I’d actually met him. To the point of where <strong>he told my cousin</strong> I was going to be his [wife? or girlfriend?] (which I found suitably creepy)." Even something as simple as sending an affirmation to a close friend or loved one that the suitor intends to win the heart of said girl is in itself a form of courtship. (Think of a lion marking his territory.) :) "I agreed to go out with him (and haven’t been able to shake him in the eight years since, lol)." Now, think back to the earliest days of your relationship, did you see him for the first time and think, "Oh wow, he's hot, I'm in love."? And ask yourself why you agreed to go out with him in the first place. (Did someone talk him up? That's indirect courtship.) Plus, chances are he did things which endeared him to you. He <em>courted</em> you in order to <em>keep</em> you. He may not have courted you in a major way (i.e. skywriting or clubbing anything over the head), but maybe he did a number of smaller things. Since I don't know you or your fiancé, I can't say for certain. And that's something I wouldn't have a problem with either...having characters start a tentative relationship with one another and then taking the time to develop it. But in most contemporary YA lit, not even that happens. Girl sees boy, girl thinks boy is hot, girl loves boy. Boy doesn't have to show girl that he's worthy of her affections. If boy does something wrong on a massive scale--which would send most clear-thinking females running in the opposite direction--<em>early</em> on in the relationship, before he's earned his place, it's just glossed over and made to seem somehow smexy, when really, it's not. "[instant love] is not the reality for most people." Frankly, I don't think it's the reality for <em>any</em> people. (I'm speaking of love in the romantic sense as opposed to kindred love.) The idea of love at first sight is sweet, but I've yet to hear of two people meeting for the first time and announcing two minutes later that they love each other and mean it. I have, however, heard stories told fondly by older couples (think married 40 and 50 years) where they start off with, "It was love at first sight" and then proceed to tell me all about their courtship which then negated that first statement. For authors, it's about making it <em>seem</em> like love at first sight when in reality, it was love developed over the course of a relationship. Gosh, I hope that makes sense. :P Hi Penelope,
Thanks for stopping by. :D

By sharing the personal story of you and your fiancé, I think you may have bolstered my point without intending to.

By your own admission, when you first met him, you thought he was a brute…so no instant romance there. ;)

“[H]e’d known about me for many months before I’d actually met him. To the point of where he told my cousin I was going to be his [wife? or girlfriend?] (which I found suitably creepy).”

Even something as simple as sending an affirmation to a close friend or loved one that the suitor intends to win the heart of said girl is in itself a form of courtship. (Think of a lion marking his territory.) :)

“I agreed to go out with him (and haven’t been able to shake him in the eight years since, lol).”

Now, think back to the earliest days of your relationship, did you see him for the first time and think, “Oh wow, he’s hot, I’m in love.”? And ask yourself why you agreed to go out with him in the first place. (Did someone talk him up? That’s indirect courtship.)

Plus, chances are he did things which endeared him to you. He courted you in order to keep you. He may not have courted you in a major way (i.e. skywriting or clubbing anything over the head), but maybe he did a number of smaller things. Since I don’t know you or your fiancé, I can’t say for certain.

And that’s something I wouldn’t have a problem with either…having characters start a tentative relationship with one another and then taking the time to develop it.

But in most contemporary YA lit, not even that happens. Girl sees boy, girl thinks boy is hot, girl loves boy. Boy doesn’t have to show girl that he’s worthy of her affections.

If boy does something wrong on a massive scale–which would send most clear-thinking females running in the opposite direction–early on in the relationship, before he’s earned his place, it’s just glossed over and made to seem somehow smexy, when really, it’s not.

“[instant love] is not the reality for most people.”

Frankly, I don’t think it’s the reality for any people. (I’m speaking of love in the romantic sense as opposed to kindred love.) The idea of love at first sight is sweet, but I’ve yet to hear of two people meeting for the first time and announcing two minutes later that they love each other and mean it.

I have, however, heard stories told fondly by older couples (think married 40 and 50 years) where they start off with, “It was love at first sight” and then proceed to tell me all about their courtship which then negated that first statement.

For authors, it’s about making it seem like love at first sight when in reality, it was love developed over the course of a relationship.

Gosh, I hope that makes sense. :P

]]> By: J. D. Montague http://www.jdmontague.com/ya-lit-killed-courtship.html#comment-158 J. D. Montague Wed, 11 May 2011 18:15:25 +0000 http://www.jdmontague.com/ya-lit-killed-courtship.html#comment-158 I have that same wish, Charleen. Taking the time to develop relationships will not only make the story go down smoother, but also make it more memorable. I have that same wish, Charleen. Taking the time to develop relationships will not only make the story go down smoother, but also make it more memorable.

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